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Trimming scandal: add COMC to the list.

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  • Trimming scandal: add COMC to the list.

    Trimming scandal: doctored cards have been sold on COMC.

    https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1315750

  • #2
    Doctored cards are sold everywhere. I would hate to be a high volume seller and have to try to inspect every card that comes through. This is the whole point of third party grading and they all have dropped the ball big time. These doctors will try to sell anywhere but the guys at Blowout forums have been outing them and I hope they keep catching these guys. I have never been more cautious in collecting that I have changed my collecting habits and downsized in quantity because I have no trust that this situation will get better anytime soon.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Damir View Post
      Doctored cards are sold everywhere. I would hate to be a high volume seller and have to try to inspect every card that comes through. This is the whole point of third party grading and they all have dropped the ball big time. These doctors will try to sell anywhere but the guys at Blowout forums have been outing them and I hope they keep catching these guys. I have never been more cautious in collecting that I have changed my collecting habits and downsized in quantity because I have no trust that this situation will get better anytime soon.
      My exact sentiments, except 15 years ago. Totally got out of grading (mostly), and collected other things instead. Made life much more enjoyable, and have never looked back.

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      • #4
        Well, it has definitely impacted the market, as graded cards continue to fall in price compared to pricing less than a year ago.

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        • #5
          Special treatment from Beckett grading. Graders taking care of an ebay seller. An inside job. Start on page 1, then skip to page 110.
          https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1297069

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          • #6
            1953 Boom Boom Geoffrion. Value gain of $6,000+ Page 147
            https://www.blowoutforums.com/showth...90614&page=147

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            • #7
              Anybody notice the link to Vintagehockeyforum in section Roman numeral III?

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              • #8
                Originally posted by smallpaul2002 View Post
                Well, it has definitely impacted the market, as graded cards continue to fall in price compared to pricing less than a year ago.
                This is a false statement. The market has not been affected at all by any of these scandals. Why? First of all, only about one percent of collectors read the forums. On top of that, not all forum readers even agree with everything being written regarding card doctoring, grading, etc. It's a very complicated subject. Some forms of restoration are accepted by many while others are not. And finally, waterfront cards continue to sell at record prices.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Puck_That View Post

                  This is a false statement. The market has not been affected at all by any of these scandals. Why? First of all, only about one percent of collectors read the forums. On top of that, not all forum readers even agree with everything being written regarding card doctoring, grading, etc. It's a very complicated subject. Some forms of restoration are accepted by many while others are not. And finally, waterfront cards continue to sell at record prices.
                  Respectfully, I think you underestimate the number of collectors that stay on top of things through forums and the impact of word of mouth. The NY Times and Washington Post will not publish anything unless there is a minimum level of interest met in the article/report. You don’t have to believe anything but certainly there is much more uncertainty that will hold some folks back.

                  I would agree with Small2002 that prices are generally softer, depending on what you collect, but generally lower.

                  Finally, the largest EBay seller of cards has been implicated of shilling, which I do personally believe is accurate, and that should have some effect on realized prices.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Kbarney View Post

                    Respectfully, I think you underestimate the number of collectors that stay on top of things through forums and the impact of word of mouth. The NY Times and Washington Post will not publish anything unless there is a minimum level of interest met in the article/report. You don’t have to believe anything but certainly there is much more uncertainty that will hold some folks back.

                    I would agree with Small2002 that prices are generally softer, depending on what you collect, but generally lower.

                    Finally, the largest EBay seller of cards has been implicated of shilling, which I do personally believe is accurate, and that should have some effect on realized prices.
                    Did you see the PSA lineup at the National? If you had walked up to any of these guys and spoken to them about the scandal, they would have no clue what you're talking about. I told a few buddies of mine, and again, none of them knew what I was talking about.

                    And how are prices lower? Give me examples. Look at all the waterfront cards - Mantle, Aaron, Robinson, Orr, Howe, Gretzky, DiMaggio, Gehrig, Cobb, etc. Show me where the prices have dropped. They are bringing in record prices. I made quite a few sales during this summer as well and made top dollar. And finally, this scandal hasn't hurt PWCC sales a bit.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Puck_That View Post

                      Did you see the PSA lineup at the National? If you had walked up to any of these guys and spoken to them about the scandal, they would have no clue what you're talking about. I told a few buddies of mine, and again, none of them knew what I was talking about.

                      And how are prices lower? Give me examples. Look at all the waterfront cards - Mantle, Aaron, Robinson, Orr, Howe, Gretzky, DiMaggio, Gehrig, Cobb, etc. Show me where the prices have dropped. They are bringing in record prices. I made quite a few sales during this summer as well and made top dollar. And finally, this scandal hasn't hurt PWCC sales a bit.
                      Just my opinion based on what I collect. Obviously, if you correlate prices with the size of a PSA line-up then your scientific approach is certainly the most accurate metric.

                      Finally, what is a waterfront card...is that like Bobby Orr pictured with the Parry Sound lakefront in the background?

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Kbarney View Post

                        Just my opinion based on what I collect. Obviously, if you correlate prices with the size of a PSA line-up then your scientific approach is certainly the most accurate metric.

                        Finally, what is a waterfront card...is that like Bobby Orr pictured with the Parry Sound lakefront in the background?
                        Very funny. I am not taking on any scientific approaches here. I'm simply stating that I had friends who attended the National and they told me the PSA lineups were insanely long. I strongly believe that majority of these folks have no clue about SlabGate, but even if they do, they certainly don't seem to care.

                        I'm a small-time card dealer - you could say that I'm a little fish swimming among sharks. I have a good idea as to what cards have been going for, and this includes many private sales, and I just don't see anything slowing down yet.

                        A waterfront card is just a term that gets thrown around a lot on the Net54 forum. It's just a real estate reference. Real estate near an ocean or a lake goes for a premium, so a high-grade well-centered Bobby Orr rookie can be called a waterfront card, for example.

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                        • #13
                          Ok PU. You say you believe, which means it is your opinion and your condition is for high/grade and well centered cards stars and HOFs. So obviously your opinion of your type of card in the small sample size of your transactions is reflective of the total market.

                          I think you have it right, yet again!

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Kbarney View Post
                            Ok PU. You say you believe, which means it is your opinion and your condition is for high/grade and well centered cards stars and HOFs. So obviously your opinion of your type of card in the small sample size of your transactions is reflective of the total market.

                            I think you have it right, yet again!
                            A waterfront card can mean many things. Find me a PSA 5 Bobby Orr rookie - the centering doesn't have to be great - and that's a waterfront card. A 1951 Bowman Mantle is a waterfront card and so are a lot of the other Mantles from this decade. A T206 Ty Cobb is a waterfront card and so is the Cracker Jack. I could give you a long list of them. Waterfront cards might be a small part of the hobby, but they are what drive the hobby. The value of waterfront cards are also a big indicator as to how healthy the market is.

                            I know you like hockey and you collect Orr and Keon, but I go after everything. I also post on other forums and I've made friends with a lot of folks, and I see all the ridiculous prices these cards are going for. Again, I asked you earlier to post some data here and you haven't done that yet. What have you been following? What do you know that I don't? Let's have a healthy discussion. You just seem more concerned with dissecting what I write instead of trying to prove me wrong.
                            Last edited by Puck_That; 08-27-2019, 07:19 PM.

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                            • #15
                              I can say this: I've sold more vintage cards in private sales this month than any month since I've been in the hobby. I'm not suggesting huge money by any stretch, but I have noticed I am running to the mailbox/post office a lot. Anecdotally, and that's all it is, the online industry seems strong to me.

                              As well, this stuff has been going on forever. I'm not naive. I expect that there is the possibility of bad cards being slabbed by all grading companies. But I also know that the majority of the cards in my collection are good, and I'm not going to dwell on the 1% that may not be. It's life. I love collecting. The Mosers of the world have caused zero dent in my spending as well: this month was the third most expensive month I've had since I started collecting in the 80s.

                              So from my little corner of the hobby, my experience has been that the hobby seems largely unaffected to date. Ebay and other auction house sales certainly *seem* strong to me still.

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