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  • All Time All Stars

    In this week's edition of the Puck Podcast, my letter is read on all-time all stars. You can listen towards the end if you are interested. I give some of my rationale for what follows. Tell me what I got wrong and I'll debate you? Might be fun.

    http://www.puckpodcast.com

    Hull-Gretzky-Howe
    Orr-Shore
    Roy

    Ovechkin-Lemieux-Richard
    Harvey-Lidstrom
    Hasek

    Hated including Hull, and wasn't thrilled to include Hasek either (neither my favourites). Leaving out Lindsay at LW bugged me, but had to be done.


  • #2
    I just downloaded the MP3 file and listed to your letter - cool stuff.

    Anyways, here is my take on it:

    I have a problem with your defensive pairings. Let's look at Orr and Shore, for example. Both of these guys shared similar qualities, and by that I mean they were offensive-minded D-men. In my opinion, the perfect pairing consists of one offensive and one defensive type of D-man, like Scott Stevens. Stevens would murder opposing players who entered his zone. Pairing him with a guy like Orr would be better, IMO.

    Comment


    • #3
      I'm not considering it as an actual team - this is like the NHL's first and second All Star teams. It goes by individual merit, with no consideration of how they'd play together.

      By the way, calling Orr and Shore offensive-minded D-men sells them short. They were also defensive-minded. And physicality-minded. etc. I know you aren't calling them one dimensional, but I wouldn't want them lumped in with Coffey and Housley.

      Comment


      • #4
        Then why is Ovechkin on the list?

        The reason why he scores 50 goals per season is because he takes more shots than any other player, simple as that. He has zero faith in his teammates and this is why you'll rarely see him trying to set them up. If there is anyone who has the talent to make his teammates better, it's him. Unfortunately, that won't ever happen because it's always about him.

        This leads me to the second point and that is he just can't win. He is turning 31 next month and if he is like most players, then he only has enough fuel to last him a few more years. Then again, there is only so much mental abuse a player can take. If he keeps choking year after year, then he might just one day pull a "Kovalchuk."

        Comment


        • #5
          Just sheer productivity. I don't agree that anyone who shoots that much gets 50 goals a year. I think he shoots that much because he scores so much, not the other way around. His coaches want their sniper shooting a lot, for good reason.

          I do agree that his post-season lack of success works against him greatly. I also agree with your comments about not making his teammates better.

          Who would you have in his place as Left Wing? Lindsay? Not sure who else...

          Comment


          • Puck_That
            Puck_That commented
            Editing a comment
            Frank Mahovlich

        • #6
          Couple changes on your first team Hart with the caveat that I like to have seen the guys play!! Obviously Shore was a great player if a somewhat despicable person. Hank Bassen once said that Eddie tied a rope around his goalie's neck and the crossbar in practice in when he was in Springfield (AHL) to prevent the netminders from flopping!! But Old Fart that I am I've only seen a short bit of grainy black & white viz of Shore.
          I'd pair Lidstrom with Orr on the first team defence. Bobby was an out-of-this-world talent!!! Nick's nickname was "The Perfect Human" and that's the way he played defence.
          And in goal I think Terry Sawchuck, especially in his prime in Detroit, was the best! Roy was exceptional as well, no question. Plante as well.
          This debate could go on for hours, eh?
          Who's supplying the libations?? Bahahaha :-)

          Comment


          • #7
            Shore's multiple Harts vs Lidstrom's none speak volumes to me. Shore was the best player of his era. Lidstrom probably was too, but without a single MVP, Shore gets the nod for me.

            As you suggest, were this an award for best guy in hockey, we'd be talking about Beliveau or Lafontaine or Bower or Selanne or Clancy etc. not Shore!

            But it was a different time and many of his era were hardened by the hard times they endured.

            The goalie choice is impossible. I maintain that 3 Cup MVPs makes Roy not only the best goalie of all time, but one of the top 5-10 players of any position. After that, I think it's a bit of a crap shoot between Hasek, Sawchuk, and Plante. Some would include Brodeur, Dryden, and Hall in there, but I'd sooner put Hainsworth before them.

            Good talk lol

            Comment


            • #8
              Frank Mahovolich?? Uh uh. No hitting, not a great leader, and was known to float A LOT. In fact, many call him (or Babe Dye) the most underachieving/disappointing Leaf of all time. Don't get me wrong; the Big M is a great guy and is a deserving first ballot HOFer to be sure. About ten years ago I had a chance to meet with him socially and he was more than friendly. But I do not believe he compares favourably to Hull or Ovi...or Lindsay for that matter.

              Comment


              • Hendu
                Hendu commented
                Editing a comment
                It still bothers me that I have yet to meet "Terrible Teddy"!!
                Most of the others I was fortunate -- in doing my so-called "job" (Bahahaha!) between 1975/2012-- to get to chat with a wee bit :-)

              • hart2004
                hart2004 commented
                Editing a comment
                I hope you get to meet him one day soon...
                Last edited by hart2004; 08-14-2016, 12:25 AM.

            • #9
              Hart I agree with 9 of the 12 players.

              ​I would take Plante, Sawchuk and Dryden before Hasek in terms on longevity as top goalers for sure in goal.

              I would take Bourque over Lidstrom, even if I really like him too. But that's a close call.

              I would take Lindsay or Toe Blake over Ovechkin on left because of the leadership, team spirit, and the fact they won the Cup. Iwas surprised to see that Blake has an impressive 1pt per game average in the 40's and early 50's, higher than Lindsay!

              Comment


              • #10
                Rocket, Bourque was definitely a serious consideration for me, as were Plante and Sawchuk.

                Blake is an interesting option for the LW. His points per game were inflated due his playing throughout WWII (lessened talent pool in the NHL in the first half of the 40s, stats boomed), but he was a tremendous player and I didn't think about him as an option.

                It bugged me picking Hull and Ovi over Lindsay.

                Comment


                • #11
                  Originally posted by hart2004 View Post
                  Frank Mahovolich?? Uh uh. No hitting, not a great leader, and was known to float A LOT. In fact, many call him (or Babe Dye) the most underachieving/disappointing Leaf of all time.
                  Very funny, Hart. The man has 6 rings and won the 'Rookie of the Year' award (beat out Bobby Hull). He also made numerous all-star appearances. He belongs in the top 5.

                  Comment


                  • hart2004
                    hart2004 commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Top 5 LW ever? Yes, I agree. He was a first ballot HOFer, no doubt about it.

                • #12
                  Hasek is the greatest goalie ever.

                  How dominant was the Dominator? Consider that during Hasek's tenure in Buffalo (1992-2001) neither Patrick Roy nor Martin Brodeur would touch the Vezina trophy, while Hasek would win 6. Neither would win the save percentage crown either, for Hasek won it an unparalled 6 years straight. And, of course, neither would win a Hart or Pearson while Hasek won two of each. Hasek also peaked the highest of any goalie in history as his save percentage of .937 in 98-99 remains the record for a 60+ games played season. Finally, Hasek was brilliant in the postseason, posting a .925 save percentage for his career - a mark even greater than his record .922 career regular season save percentage. He also carried an otherwise average Czech Republic team to an Olympic Gold. There has never been a goalie as dominant as the Dominator and perhaps will never be.

                  As far as longevity, Hasek played almost half his career in Europe by necessity - since Europeans weren't allowed to cross over.

                  Comment


                  • Puck_That
                    Puck_That commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Good post. You make some very strong points.

                • #13
                  Roy's record 3 Conne Smythes as playoff MVP speak louder to me than Hasek's regular season/international dominance.

                  Comment

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